People really get pissed when you say this, for some reason.
I'm involved in this 'thing' with some wanker over at the Shroomery Music/Arts Forum over it.
What do you think?
As far as I can tell, structurally the songs that I've heard are complex and moving enough to qualify.
The only weird part is the depth of the actual acoustic sounds coming from the strings, woodwinds, brass etc.
But whats the difference when you can *record acoustic instruments* and incorperate that into a digitally constructed arrangement?
I don't know much about the technical aspects though.
What you think?
I'm involved in this 'thing' with some wanker over at the Shroomery Music/Arts Forum over it.
What do you think?
As far as I can tell, structurally the songs that I've heard are complex and moving enough to qualify.
The only weird part is the depth of the actual acoustic sounds coming from the strings, woodwinds, brass etc.
But whats the difference when you can *record acoustic instruments* and incorperate that into a digitally constructed arrangement?
I don't know much about the technical aspects though.
What you think?
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Sat, February 4, 2006 - 2:15 PMpersonally... I think the whole topic is "wanking"...
some heavy metal is just as complex as IDM... and "moving" is a subjective term... -
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Sat, February 4, 2006 - 11:20 PMWell, I would argue that "complexity" is not a useful metric in this debate.
I have an extensive classical background and I've come to a similar conclusion...there is definitely a chunk of IDM that feels like the continuation of ideas that have been bandied about throughout the past century of "serious" music. There's a similar spirit of exploration of sound and structure. I'd say that in many ways, some IDM represents the cutting edge of musical thought every bit as much as the work of contemporary orchestral composers. -
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Mon, February 6, 2006 - 1:51 PM
What am I trying to say?
I guess, what i'm trying to say is that some electronic music seems to me to have more *variety* of sounds and beats than 'pop' music, death metal, even classical that I've heard.
Maybe I should take a music theory class and learn the terms, huh?
wank wank wank wank wank wank ..... -
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Tue, February 7, 2006 - 10:33 AMAlso, no matter the 'complexity' or variety of rhythm/tones other musical genres have, music made with the help of computers can always record and modify that original music to it's own ends.
But what about death metal musicians who use computers?
Computers that can record and modify other forms of music?
Would they still be considered 'death metal'?
Or classical composers who use computers that
record and alter other forms of music.
Would that still be considered classical?
Maybe all this thought is only a rationalization for feeling that
the classification of music I identify with is in some way better than other classifications of music.
IDM is, by it's nature, always pushing the envelope of what is expected.
...more than other forms of music??
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Tue, February 7, 2006 - 10:46 AMMaybe all this thought is only a rationalization for feeling that
the classification of music I identify with is in some way better than other classifications of music.
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bingo! but... don't get me wrong... I'm with you on that!
whether or not IDM is the new classical... I think that time will show that RDJ is one of the "great composers" of our age... as he has innovated so much of electronic music over the last 15 years... at least in my opinion...
as for this whole discussion... is the term "modern classical music" paradoxical? what makes it "classical"... the style... or the historical/nostalgic value? -
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Wed, February 15, 2006 - 12:55 PMIt will become a classical genre as we move forward. Assembelling IDM takes time but does not show an awareness of presentation like a full orchestrated piece though.
But Mr. Cunningham does quite a good job. -
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Fri, February 17, 2006 - 12:47 PMOriginally, I was saying that IDM and Classical were similar because of the complexity, but now that I think about it, maybe it has more in common with Jazz and the free expression/ experimentation of that musical genre.
It really does go back to the definition of music.(broad)
and the definition of sub-catagories of music. (specific)
Both of which I know next to nothing about. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: IDM the new classical?
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 6:01 PMNo no no...I think the jazz analogy is completely off base.
Jazz is ALL about live performance and improvisation (which, of course, is simply very fast composition with a somewhat predetermined structure)
IDM is all about meticulous composition and manipulation with virtually no live performance aesthetic.
IDM and "contemporary orchestral music" (or classical) are similar, but not because of their complexity. It's because they both seek to push the limits of our musical vocabulary. Before the digital age, the orchestra was the largest sonic palette a composer could have. Now with the advent of computers, RDJ et al are creating music that is truly limited only by their imaginations. The music is challenging and sophisticated. I'm not saying that IDM is somehow "better" than other musics (I could not survive on Aphex Twin alone), but it has more in common with "serious" musical thought than most other work being created today.
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 6:12 PM> Assembelling IDM takes time but does not show an awareness of presentation like a full orchestrated piece though.
What does that mean? Awareness of presentation? I don't understand.
And how will it become a classical genre? What will make that occur? What does it mean to "become a classical genre"?
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Mon, February 20, 2006 - 6:09 PMIn this context "classical" should probably be replaced with "orchestral".
Classical as a style is generally limited to music written between Haydn and early Beethoven.
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Re: IDM the new classical?
Thu, February 23, 2006 - 1:04 PMThat's, actually, just where I was going with the Jazz comparison, not the way they >perform< but the whole*experimentation and pushing the limits of personal imagination.* Then again, those things can be allied with (any good music) what I consider punk philosophy.
Maybe IDM is a form of punk classical?
It definately DIY after all.
Anyways,
Wikipedia first sentence on the matter says that "classical music is often thought of as sophisticated and refined." (...it also goes on to talk about specific examples and time tables)
...we're just having fun here, after all.
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